Joey Tartell

Andrew Hitz: Hello, and welcome to episode 40 of The Brass Junkies. I am your host, Andrew Hitz, and I am joined by my co-host, my inspiration, Lance LaDuke. Lance, how are you? Lance LaDuke: I, I feel inspiring. Andrew Hitz: You sound it? Uh, yeah. Good. What, um, what are we, what, what am I doing here? It's a podcast. That's right. That's why I am wearing headphones and talking into this mic. So today's in Lance LaDuke: a bus station Andrew Hitz: is what? Lance LaDuke: In a bus station? Andrew Hitz: In a bus, yes. Absolutely. It's a very quiet bus station. Mm-hmm. Uh, today's guest is, um, crazy good, stupid, good trumpet player, Joey Tartell, who teaches at, uh, at IU and, uh, is just a phenom, uh, on the horn. And as a teacher as, uh, you're about to hear. I really enjoyed this interview. Lance LaDuke: Yeah, he's a strange combination of, uh, trumpet talent, ability and niceness. You don't see it all the time. It was weird. Uh, I keep, I kept waiting for it to creep out. It never did. Andrew Hitz: It's true. Yeah. We, uh, we explored some, uh, some cool stuff from performing to, uh, to pedagogy. Um. Joey and I, uh, got into it about, uh, basketball. He's a huge Oh, that's Lance LaDuke: fascinating. Andrew Hitz: Yeah. Lance LaDuke: Fascinating to hear you guys talk about sport people. Andrew Hitz: Yep. Yes. Sport people. Yeah. There you go. Um, the, that was my favorite part was when Lance just leaned back in his chair. 'cause we talked about the NBA for a full, like about, uh, probably two minutes. So Lance LaDuke: late, late in the episode. People Yeah. Andrew Hitz: Plan Lance LaDuke: your project right now. Andrew Hitz: Oh yeah. So, I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd much rather talk about, uh, about mouthpieces and, um, and heavy valve caps, uh, than, than the NBA, but, um, no, it turns out that's actually not true. Um, so, uh, can you, uh, tell the nice people about, uh, the, well, other than subscribing to the podcast, which is, uh, super helpful. It, uh, and leaving a review, which helps, uh, people, other people find the podcast. The listenership has been going up pretty much every month since we started doing this. So thank you so much to all of you who are, uh, who are helping, uh, to spread the word. It, it's really, it's awesome. Um, but, uh, can you tell 'em the other way that they can help us, uh, with, uh, to make the podcast possible? Lance LaDuke: Absolutely. The other way you can do so is to, uh, join us at patreon.com, P-A-T-R-E-O-N. And that's a way for you to, uh, throw some dollars our way. Um, there are costs associated with producing this show, and if you're enjoying it and you wanna, uh, be able to help out, we'd love to have make that possible. So, if you go to uh, patreon.com and look for the Brass Junkies. You can contribute at, um, as low as a dollar per episode, and you can set limits on it, and you can add or subtract to that anytime you would like. 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Andrew Hitz: You can also go to pedalnotemedia.com, uh, and then click on the support the shows tab, uh, at the top of the page. And, uh, that's another way that you can find, uh, find your way to our Patreon page. And it really does, uh, mean quite a bit to us. And I also would like to thank Parker Mouthpieces for providing our hosting. Parker Mouthpieces offers fine customizable component mouthpieces for horn, trombone, euphonium and tuba, including the Andrew Hitz artist model, tuba mouthpiece, what? And the Lance LaDuke model Euphonium mouthpiece what? Find out more at parkermouthpieces.com or follow them on Facebook, Instagram, and the Twitters. So without further ado, we will now get to our conversation with Trumpet Superstar, Joey Tartell. And today we are joined by a trumpet player, by a, uh, a humanitarian, uh, by, uh, by a huge basketball fan. Uh, his name is Joey Tartell and he teaches at, uh, at Indiana University. I almost just said University of Indiana and I absolutely know better. I think it's early. Um, Joey Tartell: yeah, that would've been, that would've been a problem. Andrew Hitz: Yeah, it would've, well, you just would've mocked me and it would've been fine. Uh, how are you doing this morning, Joey? Joey Tartell: Uh, just great, uh, happy to be here with you guys. Andrew Hitz: So you're one of the nicest trumpet players in the world. And yet, uh, right before we started he was like, hold on. And he made a big deal of silencing everything. 'cause I think he was trying to imply that he gets lots of gig calls, like nonstop. So he was like, silencing iPhones and beepers and iPads. And did I read that accurately? Joey Tartell: Oh yeah, Saturday morning's a huge, huge time for booking me. Andrew Hitz: So, uh, you know how, um, how just about all trumpet players, uh, claim that they can play, uh, higher than you, uh, and faster than you? Um, Joey is actually one of them where, uh, pretty much whoever you are. That's true. So, um, so Lance LaDuke: he just won't tell you though. He won't talk to you about it. He just does it. Andrew Hitz: Isn't it interesting how the, and then Lance LaDuke: smiles and then on his way Andrew Hitz: how the ones that really can generally are just the ones that are doing it and then they just enjoy watching. The people who talk about it kind of go like, uh, crap, this guy again. Um, so Joey, why don't you, uh, I mean all that us low brass players care about is high notes. So why don't you, why don't you talk to us about how you can play so high? I'm sure it's nothing to do with hard work or practice or anything like that. So what's your, what's your trick? Joey Tartell: Uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you guys the secret. You guys are friends. I'm gonna tell you that the absolute dead secret, uh, there is a secret mouthpiece and then, uh, I'm the only one that has it. I do, I do get that question. I I do get the question awful lot and I bet you do. Absolutely. I've been doing this since, uh, since I was a little kid and I've had, I'm the result of great teachers. So I had great teachers from seventh grade who said, Hey, you should do this. And I went, okay, I'll go do that. And I was really interested, so I'd go home and practice. And then it was weird that somehow when you are interested and you practice well and you follow really good advice, that good results follow Andrew Hitz: This story is not checking out Lance. Joey Tartell: No, Andrew Hitz: it's something small. Weird. Well, that's Lance LaDuke: all we have time for today. Andrew Hitz: Worst guest in Brass Junkies history. Joey Tartell: We could go, I, I can make up the magic mouthy stuff if you want. Yes, Lance LaDuke: please. Joey Tartell: I'd be very happy to go on. I, I've heard, uh, that you're, these are things you're born with in brass playing. It's really great that if you, if your sound isn't, if it's fuzzy, you can practice long tones. And if your fingers are slow, you can practice your Clarkes. And if your flexibilities are bad, you can get your Charles Colin out. But if your range is suffering, that you are screwed because you're just born with that or not. Andrew Hitz: Wait, I heard a rumor actually that, that your mouthpiece actually has heavy valve caps. Is that true? Joey Tartell: Yeah, of course. I actually have helium, uh, injected into the rim. Lance LaDuke: That is some next level stuff right there. Andrew Hitz: That's, that's pretty good. He has answered this question before, Lance. And see, I thought I was, I thought I was maybe starting with a, uh. With a, with a unique one. Yeah, I bet you get asked all the time because you can play higher than I can even hear. And it's with a good sound. It's like, it's, yeah, it, it, you just, you look, uh, you look effortless and you don't just, you don't pop. Right. Joey has played and, uh, and I, I'm pretty sure still does. Um, I just quit. But, uh, you know, it's played many, uh, you know, Kenton, uh, big band shows with, uh, with, uh, Boston Brass at Christmas time, and, uh, and you can just be like in a good lead trumpet way, laying waste to the band, and you look like you're, you look like you're watching preseason basketball, like, I mean, just completely, completely relaxed, like you're watching the D League in the, uh, in the NBA. So, uh, it's very impressive. I'm sure you get asked all the time. Joey Tartell: I, I, I, I do. And I, I appreciate the compliments and, and. We all have seen the guys that look like they're just about, their heads are about to explode. And usually the sound goes with that. Uh, so Lance LaDuke: well, and I'm just in the back row hoping that it died. Joey Tartell: Absolutely. Andrew Hitz: I know Lance LaDuke: that guy has a family was the best gig ever. This guy looked like his head was gonna explode and then it did, then it did. Joey Tartell: This is why I love YouTube. It's both the best and worst invention in the history of music and music education. It's great. I just saw the other day this like, it's a television show from BBC of Count Basie's Band in the sixties. It's fantastic. So it's the best thing ever. And then any, you know, Yahoo with a, with a cell phone will show you, here's how high I can play. And just screaming out high notes into a cell phone. Camera looking like he's about to die. Lance LaDuke: Well, let's, uh, let's do, let's go counter to our normal thing and get, uh, a little more serious. And you, you mentioned that you had seven teachers that put you on the path. Did I make that up or did I hear you say that? Joey Tartell: Um, I, I don't know if I said seven or several, but I don't know if I, I Lance LaDuke: think, okay, Lance, let's go. I think Andrew Hitz: Lance is stroking out. Joey, Joey Tartell: let's, I can Lance LaDuke: smell burnt post. Joey Tartell: Did the lights just dim? Lance LaDuke: Let's, let's imagine that I heard three and pick three of those teachers and something that, that teacher, uh, what, what part of the road they pushed you down? Andrew Hitz: Good question, Lance. Joey Tartell: That is good question. Um. All right. I'll take, uh, Barbara Butler. I did my undergrad at Eastman School of Music and Barbara, I take Barbara Lance LaDuke: Butler for 400, Joey Tartell: please. Exactly. Certainly she has no shortage of successful students. But what Barbara was teaching me at the time is, is two great things. One, to play the trumpet fundamentally well, which I just took, that, that had to apply to lead playing, which evidently seems to be a minority opinion, but we'll come back to that. Um, and, and, and two, that you should actually be playing music. And here's one thing that is a dead true story. I showed up to a lesson and one of my skills as an undergrad was being able to read fairly well. So I could, I could read, well, I could transpose, so I could do some of the technical stuff and hard stuff. I wasn't the most musical player in the world at all. So Barbara, knowing I was dating a singer, said, bring in one of her songbooks. And play me one of the songs. And I put the song up and as I took a breath, she says, stop. What's this about? And I looked her and I said, I don't know, it's in German Andrew Hitz: trumpet. Joey Tartell: So she said, well, how are you going to play this without knowing what it's about? Oh, all right, I'll see you next week. So I came in with the translation I gave to my best, and then she pulled out an étude and she said, all right, I'm gonna leave you with this lyrical étude. I'm gonna go grab coffee. You write words, and then they better be good. So she taught me those. Those two things were really putting me on a path of, oh, so music matters, not just playing all the right notes in the right order. That's, that's good information. Andrew Hitz: Amen. Joey Tartell: Yeah. Um, I studied with, uh, I did my master's with, um, Gil Johnson, you know, former principal of the, uh, Philadelphia Orchestra, all those famous recordings. He was still down at the University of Miami when I was doing my master's in jazz studies, but I was his teaching assistant and I would come in there and play. And he was also a bit confused at why I would wanna play in jazz bands. Which I love doing. He came by rehearsal goes, ah, why do you do that? Ah, it's loud. But, um, he ha a a along the same road was really in the encouragement of playing the trumpet. Well, you know, just playing the trumpet well, fundamentally well. And so I took this to apply to everything, like I mentioned with Barbara, that idea of, okay, if this works for orchestral players, if this works for air quotes, legit players, everybody's favorite phrase, why doesn't this, uh, work for commercial players or lead players? And what I found is that, that it does. And that's sort of how I'm basing my teaching. And third, I met Vince DiMartino. We all know Vince. When I was 15 years old, I went to a summer camp at, at Eastman School of Music, a six week summer camp where he was the jazz band director and he was the trumpet teacher. And, and found out at that moment that being the best guy in your neighborhood or zip code. Meant absolutely nothing. 'cause he said these exact phrase to me, I was 15, we got into a lesson and he says, Hey, you know, you sound pretty good. You know, you're doing pretty well, but you have to realize as soon as you graduate high school, there's a whole big world out there. And then you're competing for jobs with me, and frankly, I'm still gonna hire me. Lance LaDuke: Uh, Joey Tartell: and I, and I went back with the idea of like, being first chair in my high school band, who cares? Like, I want to then be great. And that's what I'm still looking for. So if I had to pick three, I'd go with those. Lance LaDuke: Do you feel like we, to tie it back to your YouTube thing, do you think students are coming through the door with a better idea? I'm, I'm guessing I'm older than you, but Joey Tartell: I think we're in the same age range. I'm, uh, I'll be 49 for a couple more weeks. Lance LaDuke: Hey. Yeah, you're right. We're the exact same age right now. Joey Tartell: Yeah. Lance LaDuke: So when we came up, it was really just the folks that you remember from when you were coming up that were in your high school and then maybe like within the neighboring cities. Do you feel like people are showing, coming up, coming through the door at IU with a better, a, a bigger world in terms of the players? Joey Tartell: In some ways, yes. That they have more access, but in some ways that disconnect stays the same. Like when we were listening to records, those weren't real people. Like when I heard Maurice André records in high school, Maurice André wasn't a real person. He was this, this idea of perfection on vinyl. Lance LaDuke: Right. Joey Tartell: You know? So, and now the same thing seems to happen with, uh, even on, even with YouTube and, and videos that, that there's still the disconnect of Yeah, but they don't count 'cause they're professionals. But there is seems to be more awareness and, and of they have more access and generally no more stuff. Yes. That I think we did. Lance LaDuke: Then, I guess the next question is, do you think they're doing anything with it? I mean, does that do any good, does that give you any sort of an advantage over us? Joey Tartell: I, I think it should, but I'm not sure. Should. Right. I it should, but I'm not sure that it, it does, uh, because the practical application is just the acceptance of whatever you have. You know, like, you know, when I got, when I would go to New York, I could go to Tower Records and get any, uh, CD I wanted, but the people in New York never went there, Andrew Hitz: right? Mm-hmm. Joey Tartell: You know, and so now that you have all of this access, it's just sort of accepted and you don't go look for it in the same way. Andrew Hitz: You know, I've, I've found that, um, that students of mine, even really good ones, uh, who are really dialed in and are, you know, up for doing the legwork without being hounded to do it. That, um, that, that back before YouTube and Spotify and everything streaming, that when I would ask a student, did you listen to a recording of, uh, you know, of Tchaik five? And then they would say, yes. And then I would say, which recordings did you listen to? And the students would always be able to tell me. And nowadays when I ask them, I say, did you listen to Tchaik five? And they say, yes. And then I say, what recordings. Um, 85, 90% of the time they say, uh, I'm not sure because it's so easy to find recordings, obviously. I mean, any of us with a little computer in our pocket can stream like 12 famous versions of Tchaik Five. But like you said, it's so accessible that they then, they then don't start to figure out like, wow, I'm really a huge fan of the Chicago Symphony with Reiner versus a different era versus Solti or versus the Montreal Symphony with Dutoit or, and the same thing with lead players. And um, you know, it's not just the Commodores, it's the Commodores at a specific point in time so that you know exactly who is playing lead and uh, and who isn't. So I think the proliferation big word, right Lance? It's good. Yeah, it's good. The proliferation of, uh, you know, of all of that, um, you know, is, is such that, that it's, uh, that they don't actually take mental notes, uh, at the time. I don't know if you've experienced that also. Joey Tartell: I, I experienced that and a secondary problem of, by the way, my favorite Commodores is when Lionel Richie was still with them. Uh, but the secondary problem is I'll ask students, have you heard a recording of this? And I say, yes. And they say, who? And they go, I don't know, some YouTube recording, which might be, and I have used this very phrase that might be somebody less experienced and worse than you. So the, the, the, the ton and, uh, vast amounts of information available then makes it hard to sift through. Lance LaDuke: Yep. Joey Tartell: Right. And you know, I, I appreciate good information out, you know, you guys, uh, doing this. I've got a blog I put up, I trying to keep, keep good information. 'cause it does seem a lot of the times that the high level professionals are not the ones spending time online. So the information online is not always the high level information, which is a real problem for our students. Andrew Hitz: Yes. Yeah. Speaking of your, um, of your blog, uh, it's awesome. Uh, it's at, uh, joeytartell.com and, uh, we will link to it in the show notes. But there was one blog post that I'm gonna read, just the very beginning of, uh, in particular, which I, uh, had me doing fist pumps. Uh, when I read it like a crazy person, um, it was. Lance LaDuke: Wife. So she wasn't that happy. Andrew Hitz: No, no. Well, that wasn't awkward at all. Uh, so this is from, uh, Hey Joey, you remember this interview before it got awkward? Yeah, me too. Uh, so, uh, this is called Fact Resistance and this was from, uh, just this past May. And, uh, I'll just read the very beginning of it. Last week I was perusing my favorite trumpet related internet sites. That is a phrase I've actually never uttered ever once in my 41 years on this planet. And if I've got another 41 years of me, I'm pretty sure I won't utter it ever again either. We'll, Joey Tartell: we'll get you there. Andrew Hitz: Yeah. Okay, good. Good luck with that. Uh, I was perusing my favorite trumpet related internet sites and came across a staggering statement. I'm paraphrasing here, but what was written stated that all players that have great range power and endurance play small equipment, the person not have small equipment, play small equipment. The person posting went on to write that all of the people that claim to not be able to play small equipment can't play, uh, with good tone, pitch power, range or endurance. This was not just some anonymous person posting. This is someone who moderates a forum. So here's the problem. All of that is garbage. There are successful players with amazing range power and endurance on all kinds of instruments, on all, excuse me, on all kinds of equipment that all people. All successful people in this way play the same kind of equipment as a ridiculous contention. The bigger problem is this, the here's the money shot. People keep repeating silly statements like this with no regard for them being truthful. When called out on making verifiably false statements, people will often dig in deeper with such excuses as well. It's true in my experience, which you label the cop out, uh, that's what I heard from teacher A or player Z, the abdication of responsibility and your facts that disprove my statement are just exceptions. The refusal to accept truth, and then you go on to explain why this is a problem. And, um. And it's, uh, it's just your, your blog is filled with this kind of stuff. So where, where do you get your inspiration to write? Um, awesome stuff. I shared that on my blog. I shared that in my newsletter. I, uh, yeah, I was, I'm a, and I shared it on Twitter, uh, and probably Facebook and people are like, got it. We'll read it. Just shut up. So where do you get the inspiration to, uh, to write all of this stuff? Joey Tartell: Uh, well, first, thanks. I, I do appreciate it. Uh, I, the inspiration comes mostly out of frustration, uh, that our students are getting such bad information so easily. So, you know, we'll hop on the very well-intentioned websites, you know, uh, forums that you think would be great places. The idea of these kinds of online forums are fantastic. It's a online community where we can come together and have real discussions about real things and should be passing on great information that often turn into. I've got more time to post than anyone else, right? So people post a thousand times a week and that loud voice gets heard, gets heard, gets heard, and then gets credibility just because it's heard so much and it's, and that bad information that keeps filtering out. Uh, I just, in the ideal world, I want things to be fair and I want things to be right. So when I watch people who have no standing in the real world, putting out online holding court because they're the online experts with terrible information, this is my shot at trying to get some good information and at least balance so people can have some, at least another voice and hopefully a reasonable one that is, you can quantify in the real world. Oh, that guy has, is a professional player and is a professional teacher. I could listen to him. Perhaps there's something worth listening to there. Andrew Hitz: You know, it's an easy thing to write to say, don't believe everything you read on the internet. Uh, make sure you're listening to an expert. Um, and, and that's a very important message. But I just really like the way that you put it, you know, I mean, you just, you used examples and then you talked about how then the justifications that people use for them and exactly what their, so your post went many levels deep. Um, you know, much deeper than it's on the internet. It must be true. Which, you know, everyone knows that that's not the case. So I'm, I'm, I love, uh, I, the, your pedagogy is, uh, has a lot of depth to it, which I think is, uh, which I think is awesome. It's, it's impressive. Oh, Joey Tartell: I appreciate that. I, I, I really think of myself as sort of a nuts and bolts guy where I'm very practical. So if I'm telling my students there have been teachers in the past and amazingly successful teachers that are, will get into, I, I want you to think and imagine and those kinds of, uh, teaching tools I use and are very valuable. Uh, however, I do think when you tell a student something, and if that student asks you why you should have a really good reason. So there does need to be, I'm asking you to do this exercise for this purpose, and there are teachers like, just do this exercise, don't think about it, and come back and everything's gonna be fixed. And for the student who may not for, there are students for whom that works very well, but for the students, they're like, um, I guess I'll just keep banging my head up against the wall. And I don't know why my head keeps getting sore. So, uh, you know, they really need, they need clear, I need clarity. So, uh, I, I do think of myself. I try and make things simple. I try and make things easy. I think trumpet playing is relatively simple. That doesn't make it easy, but it's a simple concept. I mean, you know, we're all brass players. We blow into a smaller end of a tube and sound comes out of a larger end of a tube. It's not exactly rocket science, but we, we make that really complicated and we, there's a lot of voodoo introduced by pedagogues all over the world that, you know, you have to imagine this or, you know. Align your chakras and cleanse your auras and, you know, face north by northwest while you're playing at 6:58 in the morning, or nothing's gonna work. I Andrew Hitz: thought you said, I thought you said clench your auras for a second. There's the high notes. He finally, he didn't intend to tell us the secret, but he just did. Joey Tartell: You can't clench them until they're cleansed. So, and, and only then can they, can you really get that working right. Oh dear. But that kind of voodoo really gets in the way. And there are lots of students that walk out of, you know, well-intentioned programs and well-intentioned teachers with no idea of what they're actually doing. So for me it's, it's, I really want to be very practical, so I wanna break that down and make it as clear as I can. Lance LaDuke: What's the list of, uh, uh, materials that you have? Your, your, the newbies that come in the door? What, what sorts of stuff do you have them doing? Joey Tartell: Walking in the door for me, if you have an Arban book and a Clarke Technical Studies book, we're gonna be good for at least the first semester or maybe even the first year. Uh, there's plenty of of unbelievable stuff and there's a reason those books have been around forever. They're absolute staples and I believe they will always remain that way regardless of major. There's enough stuff to start there, and I've exercises of my own, I'm sure you guys do as well. Stuff that I've written out that I'll print out and say, Hey, I see you're doing this. Let's try this. So those are where I'll start. Arban book, Clarke book, and we're in good shape. Lance LaDuke: And then what's the trajectory of a, and you can interpret the word ideal any way you want. The ideal student that comes in the door and leaves as a serviceable human being is kind of my goal. I don't really care if they can set the world, like I don't expect that they're gonna become a soloist necessarily, but I want 'em to be a serviceable human being and musician. What's that trajectory look like for you? Yeah, what do they have in common? What do they do? What do they spend their time on? What pitfalls do they avoid? Joey Tartell: Those kind of students are ones that either walking in the door or soon after walking in the door have an idea of what they want to do. So, because there are students come in like, I don't know, I guess trumpet's cool and they play well, and, and three years later, like, I don't know, I guess trumpets cool and they might play better, but those students are harder because they're, they're not going anywhere, for lack of a better term. They might, and, and some of those stumble into jobs. I think we all know people that are sitting in pretty good jobs that basically like, I don't know, trumpet good and they make a career out of that. But from a, from the student perspective, if they decide early on or walk in the door knowing, or early on, decide, this is where I want to go, whether that's, you know, performing, you know, teaching change of career, doing something else while they're still playing Trump. Like I said, it doesn't, it doesn't matter to me, but the idea that they have an idea of what that is then makes it much easier to work with them. Towards that goal because those students generally were also, uh, driven and motivated to get to that place Lance LaDuke: it for the, for the students, for that, for whom that's a little fuzzy still. How do you help that student get onto one of those compass points? Joey Tartell: Well, and here I, this is where I use, uh, a big advantage. We're a giant Big 10 school and a large music school with a lot of opportunities and a lot of variety. So, uh, you know, I'll ask them, what are you looking to do? And like, I, I don't know. Well, let's try some things. So, you know, you haven't, you know, you came in and you played in concert band Your, your first semester. Have you thought about playing in a jazz band? Oh, maybe I'll try that. Have you started, have you done any chamber music? You really should be doing that. Let's get that going. And just kind of pushing 'em into trying as many things as they can to see what pops. Have you met any composers? Have you seen any new music? Have you written anything yourself? You know, opening up as many doors as I can to see if they'll walk through any of them. Lance LaDuke: And now here's a, a, you teach master's students as well and doctoral students. Joey Tartell: That's correct. Lance LaDuke: And then do you, do they, I, I see a microcosm of that same phenomenon happen at the next level. Uh, do you see the same thing? And what do you, how do you help those folks? 'cause you have half as much time. Usually, Joey Tartell: yes. Master students are the hardest Four semesters is, is a, is a short time to turn a student around. And doctoral students are their own distinct, uh, pain in the butt. And my own doctoral students have heard that from me. So that shouldn't surprise 'em should they listen to this. Um, but the most of the time the doctoral students that I'm getting here have a fair idea of what they wanna be doing. Um, if they don't, I'm on 'em on the way in the door. And with older students, you can be a little bit more, you can be a little more firm, a little more demanding that you're going out, you're walking into the professional world. You shouldn't be in school forever. What's next for you? And then really, you know, uh, that's something that might begin every lesson. So what do you think about next? What are you doing next summer? What are you doing over break? What are you planning? What are you putting together? What are you building? Lance LaDuke: So then let's just take that another step further. How do you see our industry is changing, Joey Tartell: right? Lance LaDuke: How do you see that changing? Where do you see it going? What are your thoughts on how do you equip them to go swim in any pool? Joey Tartell: And that's, that's the hard one. 'cause, uh, like when we were coming up, now that I know we're the same age and, and that, uh, Andrew is. Still a teenager, I think. Is that right? So much life ahead of me. Oh yeah. You the, it's you got so much coming. Just wait. It's gonna be great. Uh, then sort of the default setting for, for us, especially me wanting to be in the commercial world, is I really wanted to go play lead in big bands Right? As the big band era was literally dying, you know, right through my undergrad was Count Basie and Buddy Rich and Woody Herman all, all passing away, which was really hard on me personally. They weren't thinking of me, which hurts. Uh, so, but what would happen then is I, I think our setup coming to college was you go practice and then you go out and try and get a job. Lance LaDuke: Yeah. Joey Tartell: And, and, and now the number of those full-time job opportunities is far fewer, but the career opportunities for how to make a living in music, I think are far more. Yes. So what I'm trying to explain to my students is that. It's going to be rare that someone's gonna come hunt you down for a job, but your possibility of creating exactly what you want to do has never been better. So preach. So the idea of, uh, you know, I and I, I meet with parents sometimes coming into IU now too, and they'll say, oh my God, music, what are my kids doing? And I'll say, this is what I tell 'em. When I was going to college, if somebody had said to me, what I need you to do this week is make a, a high level audio and video recording, um, and then make sure it's available to millions of people, I would've just looked at it, stared 'em blankly and said, I don't have the money or the access to do any of those things where our, you could do that in high school. Now this afternoon. Their students have that opportunity. So I didn't do what my teachers did and my students aren't gonna do what I did, but the opportunities are there and I'm watching my students go out and do it. A unbelievable wide variety of things in the professional world. Lance LaDuke: What, uh, what sort of, what's, let, let's get some examples. What sorts of cool things that you and I couldn't have predicted would've existed when we were coming up? Are they doing now? Joey Tartell: Well, putting together, uh, their own groups. Uh, one of my students graduated a few years ago and he is in New York. I wish I could remember the name of the band. Um, give 'em an ad. Yeah. Raya Brass Band. That's the name. RAYA brass band. And the stuff they do, and they do like parties and they've got their own whole thing going on in New York and they're, they're busy and active. It's kind of wacky. There's some odd time and improvisation stuff and it's, it's really interesting. They've got a website somewhere. You can go listen to their stuff. I, I don't put Lance LaDuke: the notes. Andrew Hitz: rayabrassband.com. Joey Tartell: I think that's right. That's probably right. Uh, they're very interesting and it's something they created to go do this thing and he moved to New York and got hooked up with these guys that have the same musical interests He does. So they go and do that sort of thing and it's really exciting and he, and he loves it. Um. Uh, well this might've been more standard. One of those things. You just graduated a couple years ago. I don't know if you saw that. Disney totally recast the Disneyland band. Lance LaDuke: Oh, Joey Tartell: they got, they got to a point out there and said, let's take another look. Uh, I, I think maybe in an effort to be, uh. More diverse in different ways. And she's a student who when she got here, said, boy, I love Drum Corps and I love Disney. And was thinking about how would I put these things together? They recast the Disneyland band and she went out and took the audition and won the job. So now she's walking down Main Street every day, um, you know, playing, doing exactly what she wanted to do, you know, coming out of a, a drum corps. You know, we don't normally think of conservatory kids as drum corps kids, although I have a few that do that all the time now. But the year before that she was on tour with Blast! over on their Japan tour, which is, you know, essentially professional stage drum corps, exactly what she was looking to do when she walked in the door. Uh, I've got, uh, doctoral, doctoral students who really wanted to find that idea of like, can I be somewhere where I'm teaching and I'm playing? And I've had several in, in past few years that end up doing exactly that. So it's, it's wide variety Lance LaDuke: kind of bravery now, doesn't it? I mean, you, you and I had to go into these tracks. I went in the military band track and you, you went down, well, what the hell track did you go down if the one that you wanted to go down, what? Where'd you go? Joey Tartell: Uh, well I, I was in, uh, right outta my undergrad. I was in the Jazz Ambassadors part of the Army Field Band because like I said, all I wanted do was play lead to big band and there wasn't one waiting for me, and I didn't know about this one all that much and got a call actually to go audition. Uh, somebody, one of the guys heard me, so I flew up there and read and they offered me the job and I spent four years in, in playing lead in that band. So I came outta basic training in December and in February we flew to India for a tour and I was in India for six weeks. Wow. Two months outta basic, but I did four years, you know, playing with that. Then I went to grad school, I went down to Miami where I was, uh. The Army wasn't maybe the best fit for me. And I have friends that, that do it and do it very well. I mean, Liesl Whitaker's in my old job now, and she's amazing. You know, she does, she does a great job at it. And, and it's a great job. Uh, I don't like to shave. I do like to eat. And those two things were hard to do while I was in the Army, uh, at the same time. So I got, yeah, either and or both. It was really, that part was tough. So I did my master's down at Miami where I was a, a jazz master's student while being Gil Johnson's TA. And that's where I left there to go play lead in Maynard's band for a couple of years. Andrew Hitz: That's not Joey Tartell: so bad. And after it was great. I thought I was probably done with the road, but you get that phone call and just, you know who that was. It was amazing. It was great. So I did almost two years of that, uh, with a, a, a CD. We recorded four continents. We did in that time. It was great. And then I got off the road and, and, uh. You know, taught kindergarten for a year. 'cause I think that's the normal progression. Lance LaDuke: Mm-hmm. Joey Tartell: Is that, uh, I was, Lance LaDuke: went down one level of maturity teaching undergraduate trumpet Joey Tartell: and then Right. I kept going down until I could teach college. I, I, I actually moved to Chicago and started freelancing a lot and I, everywhere I was going at that point, I was, I was teaching, I was setting up teaching. I really love teaching and, you know, ended up here, which is So you went from, which is Andrew Hitz: nice, you went from the army to grad school to Maynard's band, to teaching kindergarten to freelancing to IU. Joey Tartell: Um, pretty much. There's one more stop in there. I actually was teaching, uh, at St. Joseph's College in Rensselaer, Indiana. They're the first ones they called me saying, would you be our trumpet teacher? And I said, I don't mean to be rude. I don't really know where you are. And they said, we know. Could you come by? We know, uh, I was living in Lafayette, Indiana at the time. Uh. And so I, they said, we're on your way up to Chicago. So I taught trumpet for the year and it really worked out well. It started a great relationship and they said, we'd like you to come here, work full time. So I was the assistant band director there. I i, they wanted me to really start a jazz band, teach their trumpet players, teach their horn players. 'cause we didn't really have a horn teacher. That was really not easy. Uh, help out with the marching band, teach a couple classes, and my favorite part of the job run the girls basketball band, which was awesome. I I really, I enjoyed that. I almost got, I only almost got thrown out of a game once, but I, I, I, I had a, I had a referee. Weird, it's one of those old hangar type places that Indiana is so great and famous for. We finished, uh, we were playing in a game and it's, you know, division two Women's Ball and the refs weren't always great, so we had two. Two terrible calls right in front of me, and it's a timeout, so I'm glaring at the ref while conducting the band during a timeout in a small, and he looks over at me and says. You need to turn around and do your job. And I said to him loud enough for him to hear, I'll start doing mine when you start doing yours. At which point he said One more word and I'm throwing you out. So Andrew Hitz: you know Joey Tartell: this, I did get a, I did get a thank you note from the women's basketball coach. Andrew Hitz: You know, the, Joey Tartell: but I did, I taught there for three years before I taught at IU. Andrew Hitz: The, uh, the story goes that, uh, Jens Lindemann was, uh, once, uh, playing trumpet at a, uh, at a, a hockey game up in his, uh, native Canada. And after a, uh, string of, uh, of bad calls, um, he actually, uh, started blasting Three Blind Mice and, uh, did, did in fact get thrown out of the arena, which is pretty funny. Joey Tartell: That's, that's really good, Andrew Hitz: right? Yeah. Joey Tartell: I know Manny Laureano actually brought a trumpet to a, a Twins game. And was told he couldn't play and it turned into an actual news story. So, because he was playing just in the stands, 'cause you know, he was enjoying himself. Lance LaDuke: So I go, I was playing, I came off Boston Brass, I started playing with River City Brass again for a year. And James Gourlay is conducting it and he has season tickets to the Pirates game. He's like a now, now that he lives in the US he's become a huge, huge, huge, huge Major league baseball. Huge major league baseball. Huge. So he's got season tickets and says, Hey, you wanna come to the game? Sure. So come to the game. Sitting next to me, he brings the vuvuzela that he bought on the Clemente Bridge, leading in there. This Andrew Hitz: is gonna end how you think it is. Lance LaDuke: Yeah. And so he starts in and he's like, well, first of all he apologizes to the, there were, I dunno, the half a dozen rows in front of us with the Scottish accent. Hey, very sorry. Just to let you know, this is gonna be very loud. I'm gonna be doing off and on during out the show. I'm not sorry enough to not do it. Like it was just like this charm to it. And, and, uh, I do think, I'm trying to remember, he, he may have offered to buy them a round of beers too, but regardless, so he's playing this thing, which is a gentle way of saying it. He's emitting sounds from this periodically, and this is Joey Tartell: a lovely sound by the way. Lance LaDuke: Oh, it was really beautiful. Uh, two things happened. One thing was that the usher came up about. Hm. Sixth inning and said, if you do this anymore, we will ban you from future games. You will not be allowed back in the park. And so he said, oh, thank you very much. Thanks for the information. And he, he didn't play it. And oh, it was collapsible too. It was like, it was like a clandestine vuvuzela. Um, and then the other thing was that the next day we had a rehearsal or a gig or something, and there were guys in the band who were watching the game on TV who could hear him at the game. They were like, we knew that had to be you. Yes, indeed. That was him. Andrew Hitz: Hey, if there are any students listening, uh, if you can get us video of you, uh, sneaking a collapsible vuvuzela into a screened placement audition, uh, at your school, uh, and play one of the excerpts on it. Then we will interview you for the Brass Junkies. How's that? That's, that seems reasonable, right Lance? Lance LaDuke: I'm in. Andrew Hitz: Yeah, Joey Tartell: that's Lance LaDuke: brilliant. Joey Tartell: That's good. I like that. Andrew Hitz: Actually, I have a friend. This, uh, is, uh, apropos of absolutely nothing but one of my friends at, um, at Northwestern, um, who, uh, I, I won't name, uh, but, uh, he, we, one of our placement auditions, you know, they were screened and, uh, Rex Martin would sit on the other side of the, of the screen and we would go in one at a time, et cetera. And, um. And, uh, my friend, uh, whose name might start with a j and end with an orange. Um, he, uh, he, he took, he, he told the proctor, he said, I'm gonna need you to go around the corner. And the proctor said, why? And he said, because I'm about to take all my clothes off. And the proctor was like, I'm outta here. And like, and ran around the corner. And George then, uh, proceeded to take off everything, including his socks. He went in, he played, he played his pool audition as it was called, uh, as it still is, called at Northwestern, then went off the stage, then go put his clothes back on. And then the next day when he saw, when he saw Mr. Martin, he said, Hey, Mr. Martin, are you aware that you spent, you spent 10 minutes in a room alone with me yesterday while I was buck naked? Which, which, that's a true story, which I think Rex tried not to laugh, but he did. 'cause it just, yeah. And I just wanted like, how do you play? And he was like, Hey, he played well. So, um, so there you go. We will not. We will not put you on the Brass Junkies if you bring us a video of that. Yeah, we will not. Yeah. I don't care who you are. I don't care what you look like. We are not audio. Yeah, no audio of you playing naked. Yeah, there you go. That's, um, that's perfect. So, um, yeah, I don't know how you can non awkwardly segue out of that. Uh, maybe someone can, not me. Uh, so actually the camera, but Joey might not be wearing pants. I mean, we don't know. He's, Joey Tartell: we don't know. Andrew Hitz: He's sitting at a desk, Joey Tartell: so, well, you know, you know me, I'm a shorts guy. Of course. I totally believe Pants to be a Pants are for suckers. Andrew Hitz: He wears every, yeah. Every time that we toured with him was Christmas. It was always December. And I, I've, I've seen him wearing pants only when they're black and he's on a stage like, that's it. Joey Tartell: That's right. Andrew Hitz: Short. Joey Tartell: If I'm wearing, if I'm wearing pants, I'm working. That's what that means. Andrew Hitz: Oh, that's, that's great. So you are a huge, uh, huge basketball. Joey Tartell: Huge. Can Andrew Hitz: you, uh, talk to us, uh, about that? 'cause you're like, you're way in. I, Joey Tartell: I am. I, I grew up in San Antonio, Texas and being in Texas, the only major league sport we had was the NBA. We had the Spurs because, uh, you know, they got football and football and baseball in Dallas and Houston. And as I understand, those owners have worked hard to make sure it doesn't get to San Antonio despite being one of the 10 largest cities in the country. So I did grow up with the Spurs, and here's how it started. I mean, I love playing basketball. I've watching basketball, but what the Spurs, this is the seventies and early eighties. The NBA wasn't nearly what it is today. So for Usher. They would offer high school bands to come in and it, they would donate towards your band trip to come usher professional basketball games. So I would talk my parents into going as often as we could. So I got paid, you know, $10 towards my band trip to go watch NBA games when George Gervin is still playing with the Spurs. Awesome. Which is pretty amazing. Uh, so that follows, you know, I just, and then the NBA starts exploding. Um, and for me it, it's as much enjoyable, uh, just as enjoyable to go out with my friends and play ball. And I had a group of friends in high school and all the way through college, whenever we're in town, we would basically get together, play basketball and eat Mexican food, which by the way is at the same time only in between. We'd alternate. Um, by the way, the only place Andrew Hitz: a free throw and a taco and a free throw and a taco, Joey Tartell: and the only place you could really have good Mexican food is Texas. That's my own personal bias. I don't bother eating it when I'm not there Andrew Hitz: and Joey Tartell: Mexico. So, no, they don't know what they're doing. Uh. My first tour of Mexico is really illuminating. I'm, I went in going, oh, this is gonna be easy for me to eat. And I'm like, what are these people doing? They don't know anything about Mexican food. It's much different than, uh, than Texas Andrew Hitz: stuff, isn't it? Yeah. Joey Tartell: But growing up in Texas does that, they just call Andrew Hitz: it food there though. Joey Tartell: They do. And that's the problem. I think that's the problem. So the, the basketball love has been lifelong and, and so wherever I am, where I've always dug in, which is I think one of the reasons IU is maybe even a, a perfect job for me, not just trumpet wise. It's always been a, a great music school and a great trumpet school, but a great history of basketball as well. Of course. So, uh, yeah, college ball, pro ball. Uh, I'm always, I'm always dug in, you know, I'm wearing actually right now, Kevin Durant's shoes. Uh, I'm not sure if we're gonna talk NBA just for a second. I'm not sure he's gonna make them better. He can bring this back a year from now and tell if I'm an idiot or not, but it seems him going to. Uh, Golden State gives them more of what they've already got. Andrew Hitz: It's gonna be fascinating to watch, isn't it? Yeah. And there's still only 48 minutes worth of shots to take too, so it's, it's gonna be very interesting to watch. Joey Tartell: Yeah. They don't need great ball handling and great shooting. They've already got that. Andrew Hitz: Sure. Joey Tartell: I'm not sure the addition of that is gonna make them any better, so, we'll, we'll see what goes on there. But yeah, lifelong Spurs fan, but, uh, do like everybody. I actually got, uh, my wife interested in the NBA. I got married a year ago, uh, so, uh, almost a year ago. A year ago, next month. Um, she's not a big sports fan. Uh, and she grew up in Ann Arbor, so she's in Michigan and that's problematic. She didn't go to Michigan, but growing up there it happens. And we live in Bloomington. You have to be an IU supporter, but she's a Mon, she teaches Montessori school. And when I told her that Steph Curry's mother had started a Montessori school at which his grandmother was the cook, she's like, okay, I like that Steph Curry. So now she's a huge Golden State fan. Andrew Hitz: So you married a Michigan fan and a Golden State fan. That's uh, that's good man. Yeah, yeah. Good going. Yeah. I, uh, speaking of the NBA I remember, um, the 96, 97 season when the Celtics had the worst record in the NBA and then the ping pong balls screwed us out of the greatest power forward to ever play the game. Not that I'm bitter about that. Joey Tartell: I think those ping pong balls did a great job that year and ping pong balls are crap. Today, IU is playing Wake Forest in football because the player you're talking about was graduating from Wake Forest that year, and that young Tim Duncan came right over to the Spurs. Andrew Hitz: Yeah, I, I remember it well. So yeah, that was right before, uh, Rick Pitino set the, uh, yeah, set the franchise back another decades. So yeah, that was, uh, those were really, really fun times for, uh, yeah, that was when the Red Sox bottomed out. Um, Joey Tartell: yeah. Andrew Hitz: And, uh, the Patriots were good, but couldn't quite get it done at that time. And, uh, and the Bruins were making the playoffs every year for 30 years in a row and hadn't come close to anything in 10 years. So, but other than that, it was a really, it was a bright time in my life. So, Joey Tartell: uh, speaking of Celtics, actually success, did you guys see Garnett's retired Andrew Hitz: officially? I just last night. Yeah, he was, uh, yeah. What a, what an incredible, uh, incredible player. So yeah, he's one of my all time favorite Celtics, which is saying a lot. Joey Tartell: That is saying a lot, but watching him stuck out in Minnesota as the only player, the only great player on an incredibly mediocre team. You know, people talk a lot about switching teams and going for titles and going for rings, but watching him move to Boston was right. Andrew Hitz: Yeah. Joey Tartell: That guy deserved a great team while he was still playing great. That was really something to watch. Andrew Hitz: He was, uh, a high school, his junior and senior years of high school when he, uh, played in, uh, he grew up in Chicago. Those were my freshman and sophomore years at Northwestern. So I was, uh, kind of following him through, um, you know, through his last two years in high school. And then when he got drafted right outta high school, which was not common at the time. Um, no. And, uh, was he the first? I'm not sure about that. He was right at the, at the, at the be towards the beginning of it. If he wasn't first. Um, Joey Tartell: right. Andrew Hitz: He was Joey Tartell: early. Yeah. Andrew Hitz: Yeah. He was, uh, yeah. What an incredible career. So, Hey Lance, what do you think, do you think that the, uh, do you think Pittsburgh's NBA team has Lance LaDuke: I dozed off there for a second? What happened? Joey Tartell: Well, come on, Lance LaDuke: Lance. Who are you talking to Joey Tartell: now? L pardon Lance LaDuke: me, ma'am, who are you? Andrew Hitz: This is the guy that stole Joey Tartell: Lance. You must know the movie. And this is an incredible movie. If you haven't seen it, go find it. The Fish That Saved Pittsburgh, have you seen it? Lance LaDuke: Dan Aykroyd? I, I saw it in the theater. Joey Tartell: Yeah, because Wait, Dan Ak Dan Aykroyd's not in that. Lance LaDuke: Yeah, I think so. Joey Tartell: No. This is about creating a basketball team pro around the Zodiac signs. Lance LaDuke: Mm-hmm. Joey Tartell: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. J's in that. Lance LaDuke: I saw it at the theater. Yeah. Joey Tartell: Yeah, exactly. And that, see there's Pittsburgh and the, and, and basketball. We've tied it all together. Right. Did that work? Absolutely. Did I pull that off? Lance LaDuke: Absolutely. Grass talk. So Joey, what kind of gigs are you taking these days? Are you playing on the road much? Are you, uh, Joey Tartell: here and there? I, I've fallen into, and I, I think it makes sense. Uh, playing lead for pops orchestras an awful lot. Oh. So, uh, you know, the idea of the pops orchestra used to be light, you know, orchestral pieces and has turned much more into completely commercial. You know, depending on the orchestra of the show. So, uh, obviously I do that a fair amount here in Indianapolis. Uh, two years ago I did their entire season they were looking for a principal trumpet player. So they said, just give us the whole season, which was great. I enjoyed doing it. I liked working with those guys and they liked having me. So this year they actually have a new principal trumpet player who's just starting out. And, uh, I played with him once this summer. Really nice guy and terrific player named Conrad Jones. So, uh, but I'll do some, I was just in Houston two weeks ago playing with the Houston Symphony. Um, have a good relationship with those guys. Uh, Mark Hughes said to me like, if this is where Pops is going, listen, keep coming. We love having you. So I, which I liked quite a bit, um, he came out to see the show we were doing, uh, Linda Eder was doing a whole show of Judy Garland Tunes and Mark came to see the show and was very complimentary, which is very nice. Uh, I'll occasionally go play with, uh, St. Louis, uh, every once in a while when they need somebody or Cincinnati. And last year I was down in Naples to do some of these. One of the things coming along is playing soundtracks live to movies. Andrew Hitz: Right. Joey Tartell: Yeah. Uh, which depending on the movie, is not exactly what a lot of orchestral trumpet players are signing on for. Um, yeah, no kidding. And so, uh, like we were talking about, essentially, uh, I came up, you know, I went to Eastman and I studied with Gil Johnson. I'm essentially a, you know, a for lack of a better term, trained orchestral or classical trumpet player. But I really like playing the commercial style and lead as well. So those things together seem to work well in that setting. So that's been something that has been more and more part of what I've been playing over the past few years. That, and, um, I'll do a fair amount. I'll do some guest artist things here and there. I'm gonna be a guest, uh, where am I going? University of Kansas in November as part of their guest artist series with their wind ensemble. I'm gonna be with the University of Delaware Jazz Band in March. Um. Going out. Oh, a high school that just called me in Austin with a great setup. They do a solo competition for all 300 band students. They get down to their finalists and bring in a guest to help coach 'em and then perform on a recital. So some guest artist things, some things whoever calls, I'm always up to go play. Andrew Hitz: I thought you were gonna say that. They get down to the finalist and then they invite a guest artist to also be a finalist. Joey Tartell: Oh no, I'm not going to the competition and apply Lance LaDuke: to the semi-final. Andrew Hitz: Right. That's how they do it in Texas. Joey Tartell: Yeah, exactly. I just go down there for the, for the, uh, you know, for the tacos. Yeah. So Lance LaDuke: it is funny, we talked about you, you thought you were going into this one track and so you prepared, you were interested in this one track, um, and then you studied as an undergrad and then now the, the co the culture has changed or the environment has changed where there's these pops orchestras that have this need that you are uniquely positioned to fulfill. Um. It's just sort of, you try and you try and beat into your students that being well-rounded and looking for opportunities and being prepared for opportunities as they show up is the way to succeed. And it's just sort of interesting to hear where you thought you were gonna go. And now it's sort of come full circle where the orchestral industry has changed to the degree that you're perfectly suited to be that guy. Joey Tartell: Yeah. Lance LaDuke: Interesting. And, Joey Tartell: and I had teachers young, you know, uh, uh, saying, well, you know, are you ready to take some orchestra auditions? And that's not the route I ever really wanted to go. Right. I wasn't looking at being a full-time orchestral player, and I really, you know, loved playing in, uh, playing big bands. And I, and I did get the opportunity to do that. I was out on the road playing lead with big bands for a while, but coming off exactly what you're talking about, I mean, I love playing trumpet. I'm one of the biggest trumpet geeks you guys are ever gonna gonna meet, as you guys well know. But the i, the idea of being able to play a variety of things, and this gets to a difficulty with pedagogy because there are people that. Want to do one thing, like I want to play in an orchestra and that's all I want to do. And I'm not begrudging that when, because then sometimes we say, well, you need to be well-rounded and versatile. And, and I think that's a good idea, generally speaking, because I think some of the best players that we look up to, we look at their histories and they're fairly versatile even though we know them for one particular thing. Mm-hmm. You know, I studied with Mel Broiles for a year who is best known for playing, uh, in, in principal in the Metropolitan Opera. And boy, he loved it and he knew all of that opera stuff, but boy, he loved big band, lead play. He would talk about, oh, I love those guys. I love doing that stuff. I miss being able to play with the dance bands. Mm-hmm. So that idea, I think that versatility thing, has it gotten more narrow in the last 20 years of if you want to do this, then you have to only do that. And I think that there's some problem with that. Uh, because I think being more versatile, I agree, in some ways prepares you better for even a specific and narrow career if that's what you want to do. Lance LaDuke: I completely agree. Andrew Hitz: Yeah. Lance LaDuke: Well, and we have those guys that, our colleagues that they can't, this is, they don't even hear what we're talking about. Like there's one path and that path is to following me into this orchestral position. Joey Tartell: Right. Lance LaDuke: And onward ho. And if that's not where you're going, then you're not really in music. Joey Tartell: Right? Yeah. You, yeah. Then you've somehow, you know, given up or sold out or, or compromised. And, and I don't believe any of those things to be true, and especially when we look at the history. But to be fair, uh, it's harder and harder to win an orchestral job now, and, and there have been many guys in and outta the industry that talk about that winning the job isn't nearly as related to playing the job as it used to be. Right. So really the study now is how to win the job, and then once you win the job, then you have to figure out how to actually do it, Andrew Hitz: right? Mm-hmm. Other than that, it's super straightforward. Joey Tartell: Oh. Other than that's a piece of cake. Well, I'm glad we solved that. Andrew Hitz: Yeah. All right. What's next? World hunger. Yeah, go Joey Tartell: right. Andrew Hitz: Well, Joey Tartell: well, I would, I would say Mexican food, obviously. Andrew Hitz: Well, yeah. Yeah. We need to, I guess that should be the next thing is, is teaching Mexico how to properly teach, teach how to, you Mexicans need to be able to teach their own food better. Yeah, that's, that's good. So Joey Tartell: just come up to Texas and they'll take care of you. Andrew Hitz: There you go. Um, the, the, oh, there were a bunch of directions I could have just gone that, uh, would've made, I think most of the audience really happy and a few people really mad. So I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut. Uh, all right. So anyway, Lance, I'm maturing. Can you believe that? Every once in a blue moon, I have the self-awareness to not say what I thought, even when it was gonna be really funny. Lance LaDuke: One incidence of a thing is not indicative of a trend necessarily. Andrew Hitz: Yeah. But one's a lot more than never. Okay. I'll give you that. Uh, so anywho, uh, speaking of Three Blind Mice, which we weren't, um, you I'm sure have heard, uh, about our, our dear friend, Jens Lindemann, uh, who is, uh, been undergoing, uh, it's actually been a while now, hasn't it? Lance? Uh, oh. You, he is been, he's having some huge problems. Uh, that's how, that's how Jeff Conner, by the way, says he doesn't say hs. So it's Houston, Texas, and it's huge. So that's why we always keep saying that. Um. I try to never explain the inside jokes, because then people are like, that's not funny. No, it's not funny. But we just keep driving into the ground. So, Joey Tartell: and, and also sort of, it then isn't inside. Andrew Hitz: Well, there, there is that we, we, we like to, Joey Tartell: now it's an outside joke. Andrew Hitz: It's an outside joke. We like to bring our audience into the fold and then they're like, why'd you do that? It's really not nice in here. Um, we like it out of the, the fold better. So, uh, Jens is undergoing some real serious chop problems, so I'm wondering if you have any, uh, any advice, any, uh, support, any wisdom, uh, what you might say to Jens since he listens to every episode? Joey Tartell: Yeah, I haven't, I, I have heard, and I have been meaning to call him. It's a, it's a real worry. Uh. He's, it, it's a real problem with a lot of trouble players as they get older, as Jens, as Jens is, and to really make sure you're taking care of business, uh, and, and taking care of those fundamentals. Uh, you can't let that stuff go. 'cause once, once you cross the advance age that Jens has reached you, it really starts to drop off precipitously. So if it's one thing I can say is Jens, um, please call me, uh, and I'll be happy to talk. But you really need to get back and it's like, you know, 10, 15 minutes at a shot, take it slow, take it easy. And I think, you know, um, you give yourself six months to a year and, and you might be able to get back. Uh, uh, I'm optimistic and I believe in you. Andrew Hitz: Joey would call you, but he's too busy playing. Well. Joey Tartell: I, I, I did not say that. Lance LaDuke: Get out your Herbert L. Clarke book Andrew Hitz: and you'll read it. Herbert L. Clarke. Oh goodness. I like advanced age. That's, um, yeah, that's that's good. That's good. That's never, yeah. That's Joey Tartell: good. You gotta watch out. You gotta really prepare. Andrew Hitz: Yep. As they say, father time is undefeated. Right, Joey Tartell: exactly. Andrew Hitz: In basketball and in trumpet. And, and, and yet Doc Severinsen is like, oh really? Son, like, father Time's undefeated, huh? Yeah. It's gonna catch up to him when he is 95. Write it down. I'm making that prediction. Joey Tartell: So, so I don't know, man. He's, uh, I think he, I think Doc turned 89 this summer, if I remember that right? Andrew Hitz: Yeah. Joey Tartell: Uh, Andrew Hitz: he's Joey Tartell: not, I heard him last. Two years ago was the last time I heard him at the, you know, young, young, young age of 87. Yeah. And he sounded, I'm gonna go ahead and say fantastic, like a million bucks. And I went, that guy's got something figured out. Mm-hmm. Andrew Hitz: Yeah. I, I, I last heard him around the same time and I was, uh, at the concert with Joe Alessi and halfway through the first tune Joe turned to me and gave me this look. Like, what the hell is going on? I mean, just like, just blown away. Absolutely. Yeah. Blown away by this guy and what he's still doing. So, uh, father time is almost undefeated. Joey Tartell: Yeah. Except father. Yeah. My, it might be, uh, Doc might be gaining, but I mean, and very seriously, he's the biggest practice fiend I started looking at, at old guys when I was 20 saying, alright, what do I notice? What I notice is right around 50, I see a drop off in guys. Go like lead players and commercial players and upper register guys, it starts to, Hey, I think I'll start working on my jazz playing. You know, I'm gonna take a backseat. Hey kid, why don't you take this? And I've been watching this since then and everybody who has said the same thing, I watch all the old guys and all of 'em are the ones to succeed. I'll say the same thing, you gotta be practicing, you gotta be doing fundamentals. So I started then, you know, because I get here, I get to school at seven in the morning and have about two hours of practice that I do, which is I did before we started. So I just came in like I normally do, so I can do a couple of hours and feel good. And so I hope I can, you know, keep doing this for a long time. Andrew Hitz: Wow, that's awesome. So where can, uh, where can people find you online, Joey? Joey Tartell: Well, you can find me, uh, joeytartell.com as you mentioned. Thank you very much. I'm on Facebook. I'm easy to find 'cause Tartell is essentially a made up last name. My grandfather came to Ellis Island. It was originally he was Giuseppe Tarone, which I guess would be Joey Tartell in Italian. So, uh, uh, so Joey Tartell, I'm on Twitter at Joey Tartell. Uh, I'm fairly easy to find. I want to, I want people to know where I am. So easy to hunt down. Uh, I'm, and I live right here in Bloomington, Indiana, so if you look at music.indiana.edu, that's, IU's School of Music, Jacobs School of Music's website. I'm easy to find there as well. Andrew Hitz: Cool. Is there anything I'm forgetting, Lance? Lance LaDuke: No, it just occurred to me though. I got a, a note from, uh, Fernando Deddos, who's a former student of mine. He's in Brazil now teaching, and he said, Jeff, uh, Nelsen is in Brazil, and he says Hi. And I was like, he. That's Joey Tartell: right. Jeff is also, Jeff also lives right here in Bloomington, Indiana, and, uh, just was in Brazil and missed his wife's birthday. That's just the kind of guy Jeff is. Um, Lance LaDuke: there you go. Joey Tartell: Just so you know, Lance LaDuke: now I feel better. Andrew Hitz: Yeah, now, now I feel better too. That helps. Lance LaDuke: Helps a lot, Andrew Hitz: Jeff. Lance LaDuke: Well this was awesome, Joey. Thank you for, for, uh, getting up. My pleasure. Andrew Hitz: Yeah, this was really great. And that's gonna do it for another episode of The Brass Junkies. You've been listening to the Brass Junkies on the Pedal Note Media Podcast Network. If you would like to help support the podcast in order to make more episodes like this one possible, please visit pedalnotemedia.com/donate for more details. Also be sure to check out our latest recording, the Brass Recording Project at brassrecordingproject.com. The Brass Junkies is produced by Austin Boyer and Buddy Deshler of the Fredericksburg Brass Institute. Executive producers are Andrew Hitz and Lance LaDuke. This has been a presentation of the Pedal Note Media Podcast Network.